. >> john: you talked about how obama managed to drive a wedge between red state republicans and blue state republicans. is that what he's trying to do on the debt ceiling debate as well. >> you can the white house adopt a divide and conquer strategy for quite a bit of time. there are 85 house republicans who voted yes on the bill and created the margin it needed to pass. here's the interesting thing of those 85 republicans who voted yes. 70 of them came from blue states. states that voted for barack obama over mitt romney last november. in other words the white house is defending on some of these blue-state republicans. that means if the white house can drive a wedge between the blue state republicans and the red state presence he might be able to get dicey piece of legislation through the house. >> john: it seems to be a strategy. where does the debt ceiling fit into this? it just ensures that we pay the bills that we already spent. why are they talking about the two issues as if they're the same? >> why do they do a lot of things. but the question as that vote approaches in februar